Interview of the Minister of Internal Affairs Igor Klimenko for Radio Svoboda
Igor Klymenko received the post of Minister of Internal Affairs due to unforeseen and tragic circumstances: in the morning of January 18, 2023, in Brovary, Kiev region, a helicopter of the State Emergency Service crashed — it fell on a kindergarten. Then 14 people were killed, including one child, and the entire leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs — Minister Denis Monastyrsky, First Deputy Yevhen Yenin and State Secretary Yuriy Lubkovych. On the same day, the government assigned Klymenko to serve as Minister of the Interior, and three weeks later the parliament appointed him minister.
At the same time, Klimenko promised that the society would find out about the causes of the disaster in Brovary in “a month or two”, but seven have passed, and there are no answers. Now Klimenko says that he knows a lot about the disaster in Brovary, but he does not want to speak personally until the official investigation has spoken.
Igor Klymenko is almost the first minister in many years who came to the Ministry of Internal Affairs not from politics. Rather, exactly the opposite: in the system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs he has been working since the late 1990s — he started as a psychologist in the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the Kharkiv region, and in 2019 he became the head of the National Police. His colleagues say that “it is unrealistic to hang Klymenko's paws, because he is out of the system.”
Many questions have accumulated to the “Minister from the system” and it is not only about the already mentioned aircraft factory in Brovary, but also about the “Guard of the Offensive”, the advertising of which billboards are hung all over the country: why is the “Guard of Offensive” formed by the Ministry of Internal Affairs and not the Armed Forces of Ukraine? On de-occupation: it turns out that it is Klymenko (and not the relevant minister Irina Vereshchuk) who prepares the program for the de-occupation of territories that Russia seized back in 2014. On the influence on the ministry of Oleg Tatarov, the chief “security officer” of the Office of the President. About demining, which can last for decades and for which there is a shortage of people.
Due to the destruction of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power plant, the conversation had to be postponed for more than a month: Klimenko was appointed head of work on the elimination of consequences. And here another question arises: whether the Ministry of Internal Affairs was ready for such a scenario, given that Ukrainian intelligence warned about the mining of the Kakhovsk hydroelectric power plant back in April last year.
“I will start with the period before the full-scale invasion, when you were the head of the National Police. I want to ask you: at what point did the units of the National Police leave cities such as Kherson, Melitopol, Berdyansk, which were occupied in the early days?
- From the first hours of the full-scale invasion, the heads of the main departments of the National Police (at that time I headed the National Police of Ukraine) were all on the ground. And we communicated exclusively on the phone. Of course, they held relevant meetings, including video conferences, video conferences, where it was still possible.
As for such cities, for example, as Kherson, the National Police, 200 of our employees left the territory of the city of Kherson, or rather, left the territory of the Main Directorate of the National Police in the city center, already when the Russian troops crossed the Antonovsky Bridge. Our units also tracked this movement across the bridge of enemy troops. And after that I gave the command to everyone to move to the north of the Kherson region. Then this column of equipment has already entered the Nikolaev area.
As for Melitopol, Berdyansk, half of the personnel were withdrawn from the territory of these cities to the north of the region in the first hours after the Russian troops crossed the administrative border with the Zaporizhzhya region. And after that, the command was given to the head of the Main Directorate of the National Police of the Zaporizhzhya region, when the Russian troops began to advance very quickly (it was hours) about leaving the territory of the garrison. But the personnel did not go far. We hoped that the Russians would not go any further. And they were ready to go right back.
At the same time, according to my command, the entire personnel had to leave the temporarily occupied territory. This applied to all settlements and all areas where the enemy had already entered. All those who did not leave on time were dismissed from the National Police. Therefore, a total of 99.9% of personnel left the service territory. Those who remained in the area were immediately released. And there were units that worked at the SSU, at the Armed Forces of Ukraine so that we could monitor the situation that is happening there.
— Why am I asking this? Because my fellow journalists who work, for example, in Kherson, say that on the morning of February 24 there were no representatives of the state of Ukraine in the city, in particular representatives of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
I was in charge of the National Police. And once again I want to repeat: the unit of the National Police led by Colonel King was the last to leave the city center of Kherson, when the enemy was already in the territory of the city of Kherson and crossed the Antonovsky Bridge.
“You said that the units remained there and they were all released. We are now talking about all the occupied territories. And how many people are these in general, if we talk about the entire system of the Ministry of Internal Affairs?
3.5 thousand police officers only.
Have you stayed in the occupied territories?
— Remained in the occupied territories.
— Are these units?
— For Ukraine, for 130,000 personnel — these are units. But we took into account the fact that some of these people left on the first day or in the first two or three days abroad or to Western Ukraine in an uncontrolled manner. We fired such people. They are among those 3.5 thousand. Some of the people had relatives of the seriously ill in this area. They refused to leave these territories. Some of them wrote reports of dismissal and were released on the same day. And the units that stayed and cooperated with the enemy.
How many people cooperate with the enemy? Have you installed them now by name?
— Of course.
— How many of them?
— I think it's somewhere around 250 people (cooperating with Russian forces — ed.).
Do they hold any leadership positions?
— This is a lower level of our police officers who wanted to become a little higher. As a rule, these are people who have not reached any career or professional heights in life at that time.
Let's go back to more recent events. The explosion of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power plant — how did the rescue operation end, what results? How many dead and what losses did Ukraine suffer?
First of all, we still count the losses. Because it is very difficult to calculate in these months how much we lost the possible harvest, how much we lost to private farms, and this is the vineyards and the melon crops that grew in this territory, how much we lost opportunities on the water. This is a big problem. The water departed a few kilometers from the shore of the Kherson reservoir. And today I see the main problem - this is access to water in the future for our citizens.
As for the dead: today we have 31 people, 29 are from the Kherson region and two citizens died in the Nikolaev area.
— On the second day after the destruction of the hydroelectric power plant, we spoke with Roman Mrochko, head of the city administration of Kherson. He told me: we are waiting for boats from other regions, we lack pumps for pumping water and inflatable boats.
I was struck by it. I concluded that the region was not ready for this. Ukrainian intelligence warned about the demolition of the Kakhovsk hydroelectric power plant since April last year. How did it happen that the region was not ready for such a development of events and even pumps and inflatable boats were not in Kherson?
— There were not enough such floats and pumps. We counted on the Ministry of Internal Affairs, in accordance with its powers, to our functions, what we need to eliminate such consequences.
I will say that two days after this explosion of the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power plant, 68 vessels were already working. This is without the appropriate vehicles of the State Emergency Service, which took people out of flooded areas. Pumps we received in a day and a half, including from our international partners. There were pumps, but we brought them very quickly, within 24 hours, from all over Ukraine in order to start pumping water from the premises after leaving.
What is a pump? The pump is already placed when the water begins to depart, and not when it fits. With a pump, we pumped water from the basements of houses. Including multi-apartment buildings, where transformer substations are located. And the pumps by and large we began to use 4-5 days after this disaster.
As for the floats, I already said that 68 was on the second day. And in 3.5 days there were already 100 of them. And there were too many of them to already work in this area. I believe that the state has done everything necessary and possible to immediately participate in the liquidation process. And there was enough equipment, primarily the SNS, which was prepared for such events.
— This event raised another issue — mining. The military says that now all these mines that have been laid have begun to move underwater. Ukraine is generally considered one of the most mined countries in the world, ahead of both Afghanistan and Syria. Tell me, how do you bargain now? Does anyone help you with this? Earlier, the media wrote that even specialists from Cambodia came to Ukraine or were going to go to help deport. I also remember that the Ukrainian Prime Minister Denis Shmyhal said that a humanitarian demining center should be created, which would improve coordination between all departments.
— Firstly, this center has been created today, the Center for Humanitarian Demining. And the supervisory board of this center will include representatives of foreign states that are already involved in the process of demining the territory of our state.
— Is it already established, but there is no supervisory board yet?
— Foreign countries have agreed to participate in the supervisory board's work. This includes the UK.
As for Kherson, today we have neutralized up to 100 mines. This process is still ongoing. Indeed, we do not understand how mines can move, for example, under sand when water has receded. Therefore, all these territories are checked by the military, the employees of the State Emergency Service, and the explosives services of the National Police.
And we see every day, you can trace in the media, is being blown up, for example, whether agricultural machinery or a conventional car.
People die just as well. Your employees.
— And so we understand perfectly well how the enemy started mining in such a cunning way, for example, that a mine does not work immediately or this mine is very difficult to neutralize. Why? Because it is at a sufficient depth, for example, 40 cm or 60 cm. First of all, I mean anti-tank mines. And, for example, the passage of cars on this mini, along this road 10-20 times cannot lead to its explosion. It explodes, for example, on the 30th or 40th pass. Because it is so mined that detonation goes to the capsule accordingly somewhere after several presses.
— Are there now international specialists in Ukraine who help to deport?
— THERE IS. They work on the territory of the Kharkiv part and Donetsk regions, which are already working.
But I have to say right away that we have several types of demining. The first is combat demining, which the Armed Forces are engaged in - in those territories where military units and compounds are located. Then we talk about operational demining, which we are engaged in. These are the State Emergency Service, the Ministry of Defense and the National Police.
Operational demining: we pass fields, roads first of all, along the roadsides we check everything. And, of course, settlements. For example, in Kherson, we very quickly conducted an operational demining of all buildings, administrative buildings. And, of course, then we already went to apartments and private homes, where people returned. We checked not only the house, but also the basement, the entire yard and the vegetable garden that is near the yard.
And we continue to talk about humanitarian demining. This is a serious enough demining that will take several years, perhaps decades. And Cambodia is an example of this — they have been deported for 25 years and there is no end and no end yet. We now, for example, when we carry out demining, we find shells from the Second World War. It's been 80 years, and the shells are still in the ground.
Moreover, I can say that such mining carried out by the enemy in the territory of the Zaporizhzhya region (and the offensive now shows this) is tens of times higher than the mining, for example, of the Chernihiv or Sumy regions, where the enemy also mined the territory. Today we have a completely mined area. It is not difficult to pass, it will be difficult to pass in order not to step on a mine.
— For example, is the Kiev region already a completely depopulated territory?
— No. Our explosives are still working. But the territory where we carry out active life activities, then this territory is already practically decommissioned. At the same time, we are talking about large volumes of work in thousands of hectares of fields, which still need to be decommissioned. Therefore, we are waiting for machine-mechanical demining in order for them to walk in the fields and deport the relevant territory.
But I want to say that only in the Kharkiv region we are now defunding primarily power lines. This is 12 thousand kilometers. Plus, we're talking about gas guzzlers. These are the ways that first of all need to be exchanged. And this width is somewhere at least 5 meters, and sometimes 8 meters.
— In short, for the understanding of our audience, demining is for years. It could be 20 years, it could be 30 years. This is a process that will continue for a very long time.
— It all depends on the personnel potential that is being demoted.
Do you lack people?
We are recruiting people today. The question is that, firstly, people need to be hired, people need to be trained and people need to be provided with appropriate equipment. One, for example, a group that works in mining must have at least two cars, the third car is a medical one. That the generator works there, so that the appropriate equipment, metal detectors, works.
Moreover, if we find a mine, we have to load it on a suitable armored vehicle, take it to a safe place and defuse that mine there. These are thousands, tens of thousands of mines that we have neutralized. Already it reaches half a million. This is only our forces, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, what has been neutralized for today. We transfer part of the mines to the Armed Forces or to military formations, and those that cannot be used later, we destroy these mines or ammunition, of course.
— Tell me, is it true that you received a task from the president to fully prepare a program of de-occupation of territories that were occupied back in 2014 — Donetsk region, Luhansk region, Crimea?
— This is a task for all of us, including the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Because the forces of the National Guard, the National Police, the border service immediately after the troops must enter these territories.
— President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky during a press conference on June 6 was asked how we will mentally return to the first line of people living in occupation since 2014, and he said: Minister Klymenko was given the task of preparing a full program of de-occupation, security and existence in the first place of temporary institutions on de-occupied territories of Donbas and Crimea.
First of all, it surprised me a lot. Because we have the Ministry of Reintegration of Territories. I thought: why does Minister Klymenko have to fully prepare this? Secondly, if you have already received such a task, then how do you do it? What are you doing?
First of all, our plans are ready. We have also prepared the calculation of the forces and means that will enter these territories. This is a large number of people, a large number of equipment. We work together, you have already mentioned, with the Ministry of Reintegration. And we work together with the governors (heads of the Regional State Administration — ed.) of those areas whose territories are under temporary occupation.
We understand perfectly well that after we enter those territories, we need to establish Ukrainian power. And for this we need to start the work of all services that should work. Of course, to ensure the safety of people in the first place. You understand that we can enter these cities after the Russian troops withdraw from this territory, or we will enter a completely different territory, which will literally be liberated by our Armed Forces. Accordingly, this is war. The enemy will destroy these cities. Just look at Bakhmut. How, for example, can you get to Bakhmut? Is it possible to go to Gorlivka? Horlivka — people live there. Bakhmut is a city completely destroyed by the enemy.
Therefore, we also consider all these scenarios, assess our capabilities and needs so that we can put things in order very quickly. You understand that since 2014, people living in these territories have a completely different perception of the surrounding reality. They hate us, for the most part, because Russian information policy was aimed at denigrating the Ukrainian government, Ukraine in general, all of us among our people who live and remain in these territories. We are talking here about the school, we are talking here about the authorities, we are talking here about the so-called “law enforcement agencies” that worked in the so-called “LPR”, “DPR” and in the Crimea.
— Volodymyr Zelensky said that this program, which you are preparing, is made taking into account the experience of other states. What is the experience of which states?
“We are talking about Bosnia, we are also talking about Croatia. That is, where there were wars, and where there was opposition of armies.
— Do you really cooperate with specialists from Croatia? Do you go there? Do they go here? Do you have any meetings?
— Yes, of course. We hold meetings. We share information, we collect that information. In general, our specialists hold such meetings in principle with all our European partners.
— What Croatian experience would you like or prefer to apply — Donbas, Crimea, Luhansk region?
— The fate of Ukraine is special. And you can not compare it with any territory. Because the war is so brutal in Ukraine, our people have been so brainwashed since 2014, that it will be quite difficult to compare us with the same Croatia, for example, or with Serbia, or with Bosnia and Herzegovina.
But we take into account the coexistence of religious communities in these countries, we take into account the existence of different nationalities in these territories. Because both the religious and, if in this case we take these European countries, the ethnic nature of the hostilities and the problems faced by these states will be important enough to understand what we should do. And it is we who are now trying to understand together how we will all work together in these territories.
— How are you going to overcome the hatred you just mentioned?
— This is a long process. We will first return the territories and work with the people. I think that with collaborators and with those people who were involved in war crimes — it will be a separate conversation in the legal field. I think most of them will come out of these territories. And with citizens who simply live in these territories, it is necessary to work. Here, both the information and educational program will be prepared by the state.
— In February of this year, the National Recruitment Campaign “Guards of Offensive” was launched in Ukraine. I do not know how in other cities, but in Kiev many billboards were hung with advertisements of the “Guard of the offensive”. Recruit soldiers to the assault units of the National Guard, the State Border Guard Service, the National Police. These are nine assault brigades that will be involved in the liberation of the occupied territories.
Why is this “Guard of Offensive” formed under the wing of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, and not the Armed Forces?
— First, let's say that these events and recruitment campaign took place and are taking place throughout Ukraine. These brigades you mentioned, there are really nine of them. Seven brigades of the National Guard, one brigade of the National Police and one brigade of the State Border Service. They are almost already formed. They have been educated, the training is appropriate, they are armed and will take part in hostilities.
I would like to note that all these brigades during hostilities, being sent to combat areas, are under the command of the Armed Forces. But the National Guard today is in the structure of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, as are the National Police and the Border Guard. And the backbone of these brigades is made up of former servicemen, police officers and border guards who have experience of the hostilities of 2014-2015. Also, these brigades were partially joined by active employees and servicemen.
And, of course, more than half are just civilians, whom we recruited in February, March, April of this year. If we, for example, look at where our units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs serve, then we can see on the map that the units of the Armed Forces and the units of the Ministry of Internal Affairs are.
— How many troops are we talking about if we are talking about the “Guard of Offensive”?
This is closed information for today. This is several tens of thousands of people.
— Several tens of thousands of people, including civilians, not only former and current employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, but also civilians.
Former civilians. They are all on duty. They either signed contracts, or were drafted through mobilization, through recruiting centers, or came to the service of the National Police.
— It turns out that the Ministry of Internal Affairs is forming its own army.
— No. The Ministry of Internal Affairs has losses high enough for the entire period of hostilities. And this narrative that we create or equip our army — I always send everyone to hospitals, to medical centers and rehabilitation centers, how many of us from the army you are talking about are in treatment, who have not only lost their lives, they are losing their health. These people are real soldiers. And these people perform the same functions as the Armed Forces.
— Then why are they not in the Armed Forces, but in the Ministry of Internal Affairs?
— And I'll let you know. For example, an employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, National Police has the rank of police major. We took him into service. This is a former employee. So, when he goes to the Armed Forces, he has the rank of private. Moreover, employees of the police or the State Border Service enjoy social benefits and guarantees. So, in the Armed Forces it is a completely different situation. Because these people after the end of the war will work in the border service, guard the border. These people will work in the National Police, detect and investigate crimes, protect public order. These people are not military. And it is very difficult to then demobilize from the Armed Forces.
That is, a police major cannot serve in the Armed Forces as an ordinary, for example, a machine gunner. He has a position, for example, a platoon commander or deputy platoon commander, a detachment commander if necessary, but he will be an officer of these very units.
— You have now actually said that people who served in the ranks of the Ministry of Internal Affairs did not find a place in the ranks of the Armed Forces, because they have some positions, ranks, so we are creating a separate paramilitary army in the ranks of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
— We gave our people the opportunity to choose — to go to the Armed Forces. But by that time they had not gone to the Armed Forces, they wanted to go to the “Guard of Offensive”. They wanted to go serve in the National Police. We gave them a choice. We did not say, for example, that you should work or serve only here. No. We gave citizens the opportunity to make decisions in confidence to participate in hostilities. It does not matter today, where a soldier or a policeman is serving, in which unit. The main thing is that they go under the command of the Armed Forces, under the commander, for example, of a strategic association, these people bear the same responsibility.
— This is now, while the war continues, they are under the command of the Armed Forces. But, imagine that tomorrow the war ends and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the civil ministry, has its own army...
— No. These units (“Guards of Offensive” - ed.) will be disbanded (after the end of the war - ed.). These servicemen and policemen will perform their functions and border guards, in accordance with the functionality of a particular military unit or police unit.
— That is, when the war ends, the units of the “Offensive Guard” will be disbanded?
— Yes.
— Is it somewhere documented, agreed, has this become the position?
— What about these units after the war? And you did not think about who will enter the territory, which has been temporarily occupied since 2014.
— ZSU.
— No. Police functions are performed by the National Guard and the National Police of Ukraine. And the border guards will enter the border. And they will fight on the border with the Russian Federation. Because if you think the war is just going to end, then I think you're wrong. Who will go, which Armed Forces? Will the Armed Forces protect public order? Will the Armed Forces document the war crimes that were committed in 9 years in the territory of Luhansk or Donetsk regions? No. It will be these people who are volunteers who will be in positions...
But now you don't teach them how to document war crimes.
— And we have investigators there, we have operatives there, we have special agents there. Do you think that the Russians will just leave and not leave behind the sabotage groups?
“I think there is a risk that the war will end and the civil ministry — the Ministry of Internal Affairs — will have several tens of thousands of troops, and some Ukrainian authorities (no matter who heads the state) will be very tempted to use these paramilitary weapons in their political struggle.
“You are shifting the emphasis because you underestimate the problem that is facing us in the occupied territories. We need people by last name after the de-occupation passes, who will take responsibility and courage to go to these territories. This is also explosives. Because in every unit of the “Guard of Offensive” there is an explosives unit. In each unit there are medics who provide assistance not only to the military, but also to the people when we enter the de-occupied territories.
Therefore, the fears of some politicians that we are forming some kind of army have no basis. These people go to war, they die in war. You hear me, hundreds of people are dying and getting serious enough injuries that will require rehabilitation. I can't tell you the numbers right now, but these are big numbers because this is war. Wounded by mines, from artillery shelling, from bullet shells.
What kind of army are we talking about on the street? We are talking about a serious war. And we started talking about politics very early on. By the end of the war, we will lose a lot of people, both physically and mentally. And today we have to talk, on the contrary, about restoring their health, renewing their health not only in medical institutions.
Imagine, any soldier who comes after treatment and rehabilitation, for example, with a prosthesis or without eyes, he will be demobilized, the state will pay him the appropriate funds - a million, a million and a half funds and that's it. He goes to his village, to the village. And who will watch this former soldier there? Paramedic. That's what we're talking about. And these people go and get seriously injured.
— And those who come to the “Guard of the Offensive” will potentially be able to replace them?
— We change that way. A military unit, if, for example, it loses a lot and is withdrawn for renewal, a unit of the “Guard of Offensive” enters. We were able to form, in parallel with the Armed Forces, an additional mobile resource for conducting war with the enemy. We don't have time to be sentimental and think about the street or think about the future, what will be there in a year, in two, in three. Today we need military men who will fight at the front.
And these are political insinuations when they say that these people will be on some streets. What street?! There is a war going on today. There is no street today. There is no army on the street today. Today we have only war and that's it.
I go almost every week to combat units that conduct combat operations, I mean the “Guards of Offensive” as well, and I look at these people. You know that our guys even come with prostheses, come back to fight. And I don't think he's going to get anything out there. I have already explained our position many times: we must win the war. And then everyone returns to a peaceful life. Peaceful life, such as today in Western Ukraine or in Kiev, and peaceful life in the temporarily occupied territories are two different differences.
— You have just voiced such a manifesto, urged not to think about politics. But we as journalists who closely follow, including political processes, are already seeing signs that some preparations for the elections have begun. Therefore, in fact, there are such fears that then these forces can be used in political struggle.
— I can assure you that no one planned to use these forces in the political struggle and does not plan to use these forces. This is once. And this is not an excuse, but a fact. I would like to point out once again that some of our policies are a little ahead in terms of waging war and the possibility of political hard work on the territory of our country. And because of this, some people forget that we have a war today.
The Ministry of Internal Affairs currently does not participate in any political currents and political divisions. I think that's immoral today. This applies to everyone: both ministers and politicians who are trying to win some points on this now.
— You are a person who has been working in the law enforcement system for a long time, since the 1990s. And from your official biography it follows that most of all you were engaged in personnel support. Obviously, you have to know people very well, understand them.
— Yes. I can't say how well I know, but I'm very rarely wrong. Because we are thorough enough (it's not just me), our services study all the managers we appoint thoroughly enough.
— Have you previously crossed paths with Oleg Tatarov (deputy chairman of the OP Andriy Yermak — ed.)?
— No. Tatarov worked... When I worked in the personnel department, Oleg Tatarov then worked in the Main Investigation Department. We did not cross paths with him.
— And now how often do you cross?
— Somewhere once a week.
Are there any questions you agree with him?
— Questions, for example, regarding the Kakhovskaya hydroelectric power plant. We work with Kuleba (Oleksiy Kuleba, Deputy Chairman of the OP — ed.), who is responsible for regional policy. We can communicate, for example, with Tatarov, if necessary, as regards the force block in general and the use of rescuers, policemen and everyone else in this territory. We interact with the SBI if these official crimes go away. We cooperate with the SBU. Because the police are working to identify and neutralize collaborators in the territories.
— Does Oleg Tatarov influence the work of the ministry?
— Does not affect at all (Tatarov on the work of the Ministry of Internal Affairs — ed.).
— Does he never voice any instructions, orders, wishes from the Office of the President to you?
— I can tell you... in the Ministry of Internal Affairs... can you name at least one person who is, perhaps, from the orbit of Oleg Tatarov? Probably not. This does not apply to my deputies, nor to the heads of departments and directorates of the Ministry of Internal Affairs. This is the answer to your question. No, of course.
Why do you think you were appointed Minister? After all, you were not even the deputy of Denis Monastyrsky. He seems to have had five deputies. And in order to appoint you acting minister, you were even appointed first as deputy minister, and only then on the same day appointed to serve as minister. That is, they did not elect any of the then current deputy ministers, the choice fell on you. Why?
We need to ask the president, the prime minister.
— And who interviewed you: the president or the prime minister?
The president and the prime minister.
— And how was it?
It was horrible, to be honest. Because I just came from the scene of a helicopter crash (plane crash in Brovary, in which 14 people died, including the head of the Ministry of Internal Affairs — ed.). And I, to be honest, a few days later I even got a comment from the president that I had to pull myself together.
I was really in this state for 2-3 days in which I could not... On the one hand, I had to fulfill my functional duties as head of the National Police, and I was entrusted with the duties of Minister of the Interior. On the other hand, I still had to prepare for the mourning ceremonies. And in general, I spoke with Denis Monastyrsky only the day before at eight o'clock in the evening, as I did with his first deputy Yevgeny Yenin half an hour before that (catastrophes - ed.). And when I first came from the leadership of the central executive bodies of the Ministry of Internal Affairs to this disaster, I really took it very close to heart.
— What about the investigation of the plane crash in Brovary? I remember that you said that you would do everything possible to determine and establish, as soon as possible, why this disaster occurred. It's been a lot of time. And society still does not know what happened.
— Regarding the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the National Police, we collected all the material and handed over to the pre-trial investigation bodies that are conducting this investigation. Therefore, I hope that the SBI, the SBU, and the Prosecutor General's Office, when they have completed all the examinations, and there are several dozen of them, will be able to...
An investigation has been going on for a long time.
— This is not a question for me.
Don't you think it takes a long time?
“Look, I would like the results of this investigation to be announced. As soon as the appropriate law enforcement agencies and the Attorney General's Office are ready to do it, I think they will.
- And yet, there were several versions that the plane crash could have occurred through the fault of the pilot, due to a malfunction of the equipment or sabotage. Which version do you personally lean towards the most?
— I know a lot. I don't want to talk about it in person right now. But I, believe me, after the results of the investigation into this disaster are announced, I will be able to tell you a lot about what the Ministry of Internal Affairs did to prevent such tragedies from happening again.
— Is it a malfunction?
I said what I said.
One last, even a personal question. According to your official biography, it is known that you have a son.
— Yes.
— How old is he?
-- 26.
— And where is he?
— In Kiev.
Can you tell me what he does?
— Yes. He works as an ordinary engineer. His eyesight is minus 9. That is, he does it. He is also volunteering.
Based on the materials of Radio Svoboda
